Stephen Frears on creating a dictator: Should she have a lot of shoes?
Even if you set aside the tremendous body of work of lead actress Kate Winslet, the films and TV shows of “The Regime’s” formidable “unholy trinity”—namely, showrunner Will Tracy and directors Stephen Frears and Jessica Hobbs—are just as iconic, a word we don’t use lightly.
The two-time Oscar-nominated Frears, who’s now 82 years old, is the auteur behind such screen gems as “The Queen,” “Florence Foster Jenkins,” “Prick Up Your Ears,” “Dangerous Liaisons” and “My Beautiful Laundrette.” On the other hand, Hobbs won an Emmy for directing the “War” episode of “The Crown,” while Tracy clinched three of his five Emmys for HBO’s sublime series “Succession.”
The six-part HBO/HBO Go series “The Regime,” which is now on its fourth week, follows a year in the life of a European dictator, Chancellor Elena Vernham (Kate Winslet)—with disgraced soldier-turned-trusted advisor Herbert Zubak by her side—as everything around her begins to crumble.
We’ve spoken to Stephen and Jessica in one roundtable interview, then with Will in another about their risky dark comedy, its fabulous actors, and the familiar “tragi-comic” circumstances surrounding the rise and eventual fall of dictators that the show seemed to have cleverly lifted from the pages of history.
In fact, in a number of scenes, you’ll even see Elena “conferring” with her departed father, the country’s former strongman, whose preserved but slowly decomposing remains can be seen in a glass coffin! Indeed, truth is stranger than fiction.
With the seeming nods to the Romanovs, Rasputin, the Romanian Ceausescus, and even Thatcher in the series, Stephen and Jessica was asked if the references were intentional.
“I remember thinking about Rasputin, and Kate clearly reminds everybody of Thatcher,” Stephen quipped. “You were probably also reminded of Putin, and a lot of it is taken from [the antics of] Trump.”
Chiming in, Jessica said, “Yeah, there’s a huge amount of references in it, but nothing specific as it were. What’s interesting as we go through all those names—and you’re talking about many people over centuries—is just how often this [situation] pops up … how much we, as a world, deal with dictatorship and autocratic behavior.
‘Mashup of themes’
“And so, in Will’s writing, like being a magpie, the intent was to steal a little bit from everywhere so it’s not recognizable as just one thing. It’s a whole that becomes very unique in its own way by what Kate and Matthias brought to it.”
When we told Stephen and Jessica that we also noticed the references to the Marcoses, Stephen said, “I remember thinking about Imelda Marcos particularly … I thought, ‘Should [Elena] have a lot of shoes?’ I mean, it was really a mashup of all these themes that were so interesting and enjoyable. So it wasn’t sort of one-note, and it ended up dancing around that. There are lots of Trump and Putin in there, too.’
“I remember thinking, ‘This is hard. Do these people want me to invent a country?’ So, as Jessica said, it was very much like a magpie … we just took [details] from everywhere—and that was part of the fun.”
Asked if Kate lived up to their expectations of what their idea of a dictator should be, Jessica answered, “I would say she exceeded them. It was an astonishing thing to witness, from the minute Kate did the read-through to when she first walked on set.
“She just owned who that person was and, to her great credit, made her complete. I believe every aspect of that person that she is representing and playing. This wholly made-up fictional character works because of what Kate brings to the role … the physicality and everything else about it.
“In a sense, we’ll all start learning [about today’s political reality] now,” Stephen mused. “You know, we’ve had a chat with someone from Hungary [in this roundtable] who clearly knows far more about dictatorship than we do. And we start realizing the seriousness of it. It’ll be very interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks.”
‘Live piece in action’
Jessica agreed, “And since the time that we started making the show, the state of the world has changed … the things that are being said, the behavior we’re witnessing, if we can believe them, are even more outrageous. So it’s a live piece in action.
“I think Will’s reasons for writing it and our reasons for wanting to make it still speak to all those things that are going on nowadays, and will continue to go on. And hopefully, this will make people think.”
In the series, Elena looks increasingly like a tragic figure. Do they see all dictators as tragic figures?
“They might seem like tragic figures, but no … I don’t see anything tragic in any of them,” Stephen stressed. “But the fact that dictators are still around is astonishing. Like, why is Trump still around?”
Jessica pointed out, “I would say that the reason for having this show is to make people understand why people in positions of dictatorship and power still garner sympathy. Hopefully, it will make you think about why that is so.”
In a separate roundtable discussion, Will was asked if it was a conscious decision for him to field a woman protagonist in the role of the dictator.
“I really don’t know how I arrived at that decision,” Will admitted. “I’m trying to remember if that was maybe in the first one-page pitch document or it might have been just by default. Because whenever I feel like I put in something by practice, it’s always an exercise for me to change it almost without thinking. Then, all kinds of interesting possibilities come out of that.
“So, I really didn’t think any more than that. I thought, ‘Well, if it feels like we’re seeing [a man in a particular role] over and over again, then maybe I should try something completely different.’”
We also asked Will what went into the idea of casting Kate, who’s more known for drama, in a loopy comedy. We pointed out that it’s easier for viewers to imagine an actress like Meryl Streep (“Devil Wears Prada,” “Death Becomes Her,” “Florence Foster Jenkins,” “Mamma Mia!,” etc.) or Emma Thompson (“Love Actually,” “Late Night,” etc.) in the role.
“Exactly. First of all, I think that’s a great reason to cast someone like Kate in a role like this,” he said. “People might not necessarily associate her as strongly in a role with a comedic tone. Yes, it may have been a safer move to go with some of those other actresses, but once you know Kate’s range, you’ll realize she’s also been more than capable as a comedic actress at certain points in her career.
‘Charisma and power’
“I can immediately mention ‘Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind’ and ‘Extras.’ I’ve always found her very funny, not just in those projects, but even in interviews. So it didn’t take much convincing from me for Kate to get on board.
“I find that oftentimes in performers of her caliber who are used to playing strictly dramatic characters—with a capital D, in her case—they’re often quite keen on doing a role that has more comedic bite to it.
“This is one lesson I learned while working on ‘Succession.’ Look at Matthew Macfadyen. He wasn’t necessarily known for comedy, so he was dying to play someone who wasn’t just a ‘period piece’-handsome lead. He wanted to do something dark and humorous. And boy, look at what he did with his character in ‘Succession’!
“And now, look at what Kate has done with this role in ‘The Regime.’ You can feel the relish in her as a performer, thriving in a kind of tone or rhythm that she doesn’t often get to inhabit.”
Given Kate’s charisma and power as an actress, was Will aware of the sympathy and admiration that the Oscar-winning actress would immediately elicit regardless of her “negative” role?
“That’s a great question,” he said. “Yeah, I was aware of that as a writer. I think the character is also very much aware of that. The character shares this quality, this emotional openness with the performer who plays her. So even when Elena goes about her affairs in very calculated and manipulative ways, there’s something about her when she’s on camera talking to her people where you feel as though she’s talking right through you.
“There’s an affectation of warmth in the presentation of empathy. It’s not just sympathy, but the empathy she’s able to convey—and that’s sort of Elena’s superpower! That even as she’s pursuing harsh and increasingly repressive measures, she has a way of making it feel as though she’s strong, comforting and kind … like a nurturing maternal figure. And she uses those traits to her advantage.
“But while that’s a huge key to Elena’s character, I didn’t want to suggest that she’s only sympathetic in a calculated way. I think she’s a broken person. I didn’t just want to portray her as this sort of villainous cipher.
“Elena is someone whose ‘wiring’ went quite wrong in the way that she was raised as a child. Then, the isolation, fame and extreme unlimited power kind of drove her into paranoia and madness. They were probably always there just lurking inside.” INQ
